@nikolai60: It seems that he was only asked if he knew a way in, not how did he get out. So not really attempted treachery. But he does seem to have withheld vital information…
Well judging how he’s hiding up in his wings, I’d say he still is quite a child.
I’m actually impressed with Jigsaw, she’s getting answers and that reaction out of him. I’m taking it its just as much about dealing with her sibs, as it is about using her powers to uncover the trap in waiting for them.
@Josh.C: I think you are right about him still being a child, especially if he was in those isolation pods for who knows how long.
I would hazard a guess that the intention of the isolation pods is to break the beings in them so that they can be “built up again”. A little like military training, but more brutal, quicker, and most likely with a lot of psychological issues in the long run…
@Lavabat: It also gives us some interesting point about this ship.
Even this ship once belonged to the Org. Of coarse that brings to question just what happened here.
Certainly sets more of what happened with things. Some of these kids might have been on this ship even before Gabriel took it over. The first few ships Gabriel took were probably just a simple delivery ships with Rei and more kids with other supplies. As the ships kept coming, they progressively become less full of kids and more full of Org soldiers trying to understand what was going on.
I’d counter that White Diamond was Gabe’s “original” ship, and he led the revolt in direct response to finding out about the isolation pods/their use. Now…I don’t know if isolation pods are like isolation tanks (limiting the sensory input of the individual within to nil) or isolation cells, which just keeps someone out of contact with other patients (or prisoners). Given that Razil spent more than a day in one, I assume the latter, since long-term isolation tank use wrecks you. Well, wrecks humans. I’d wager, based on the shifting, that we are looking at prisoners, and that White Diamond was secretly a prison transport system with a psych ward cover.
That explains the slapped puppy sound she got from his mind. three days or more in total isolation will break most men even strong ones. too bad it never worked on the joker who went though all stages of acceptance in about five minutes during the jokers last laugh arc when he thought he was about to die. i wounder how Qin would deal with it.
@Brunhidden: Not sure if that would be a good idea. If we consider the shape these kids are in, that might be handing the kids from one devil to another.
@The_Rippy_One: That actually makes it all a little more interesting. If the org had always been here as well as Gabriel and some of the kids. What exactly is this ship?
Did the Org commission (as well as modify) Gabriel and his ship to hold these kids? What happened that made Gabriel the only figure of law on this ship? When exactly did things turn around on this ship? Was the speakers Gabriel’s idea or Org’s?
@Josh: I agree about not letting the mentally broken and scared soldiery loose. Gabe may be bad (or not), but he isn’t exactly harmful. Soldiers at the height of their wrath…probably a bad risk…
I don’t think that most of these kids are from this ship. Razil obviously was, and I’d make the bet that the kids cringing about the “before times” probably were Raz’s pod-mates, and the nervous ones were from Gabe’s psych ward from back then, but Gabe has been freeing prisoners on the ships he’s entrapped, and if Star Org was running this sort of BS on one ship, they’re going to have run it on others.
If my supposition about why Gabe rebelled and took the ship holds, it may be that he’s been baiting himself specifically to find and stop that sort of thing on other ships…
Wild Mass Guess: Star Org imprisoned Veled on Gabe’s ship, and discovering her led to the rebellion I suppositioned.
@ Brunhidden – Good one! I almost sneezed out Coke while laughing 😉
I love the way Jig can draw so many complicated expressions and keep them separate to each character. And I feel sorry for Raz…he looks so cute hiding in his wings.
The odd thing about psychological tortures like sensory deprivation is that they can induce regression in a subject. Perhaps this is why Razil of soo childlike? And perhaps that is why the Org and Gabriel use the isolation pods – beings that have regressed to an earlier stage of psychological development would be more likely to obey a figure of authority. Much like a child obeys their parents.
@e_voyager – If he is remotely honest about his true age he is probably quite used to it, probably wouldn’t have been his first time locked away in utter isolation for indefinite periods of time.
Oh joy, this means those holes all over the ship are like laundry chutes for the convenient disposal of “unclean” Org cadets for (brain)washing. 👿
@Lavabat: I’m with you on the purpose of the pods. Since these were paramilitary ships, why not set aside some floor space for the automated “training” of recruits, or “re-training” if need be? Just think of all the time you could save on deployment! 😛
@The_Rippy_One: Do you think Gabriel is ex-Org, or were these pods just a personal catalyst for him to start his own crusade?
@Josh.C: I want to say that Gabriel put the speakers in, if only because the Org seems to have continually failed to account for them. xD
@ Sul: I’m not sure these ships were paramilitary. Or, at least, that these ships were known to be paramilitary by most of their staff. You could manage this set-up with just the director, and a “janitor/handyman/orderly” or two to handle the secret floor/pick-up/delivery. So, no, I don’t think Gabe started out Org. I was working more from the thought that the secret floor’s comp resources would hold a “manifest” of were the “cargo” came from, and he’d troll for the ships listed there to start.
@The_Rippy_One: A paramilitary group is simply a military-esque force whose function and organization is similar to those of a professional military, but which is not considered part of a state’s formal armed forces. The Org has officers, and the officers have military style uniforms. The org also have combat units – the riot squad they sent after Ariel (impostor or otherwise) even had a sniper. I think that would count as paramilitary.
@Lava: sure, Star Org, if not a straight up recognized church militant, is definitely paramilitary. Doesn’t mean that they can’t lie, and hire people through that lie, and in support of it. 95% of the staff on the White Diamond may have been hired as real doctors, nurses, engineers and orderlies to work at a real, newly built, neutral, medical facility, and fully believed that they were serving on a perfectly normal hospital ship. As such, they wouldn’t be part of a paramilitary organization, even if they were, nominally, on Star Org’s payrolls, by way of several shell corps. They certainly wouldn’t know it. From Star Org’s perspective, it would be almost ideal to set it up that way – why try to actively hide a secret in a large group, when you can have a large group’s honest ignorance shield your secret instead. Some of the best liars are the ones that don’t know that their lying, after all.
@The_Rippy_One: In order to hide a secret in a large group’s honest ignorance you would have to be able to keep all the members of the large group ignorant all of the time, or fool all of them all of the time. While I agree with the underlying theory of your argument, it seems a little impossible to pull off – unless you are a writer or comic artist and control all the variables. 😛
@Everyone: Sorry to break up the flow of the conversation, but, I just wanted to say to Jig,’ Sul, E, Nikolia, and everyone else, one of the things I’m thankful for, is this comic and its community. To the Americans, happy Thanksgiving, and everyone else, a simple thanks.
@The_Rippy_One Right back at ya man, and all of you. Fun times indeed. I’m gonna add being able to finally read the Part 1 of Vol 2 book I bought, since I forgot to send to college, not home, so just getting to it now!
You all are great, as is this comic, Happy Thanksgiving all, unless you don’t celebrate, then happy Turkey day all the same!
D’awww! Thanksgiving or not, I’m grateful that not only do we get to just KEEP READING this swanky comic (beyond the five-year mark), but that y’all make doing so that much more fun. Here’s to more good times! 🙂
Is it too much of a stretch that an Org hospital ship would come equipped with these isolation pods? I don’t think I would put it past them.
@The_Rippy_One: Using contractors and shell corporations sounds like an excellent (and likely) way for the Endless to exert their shadowy hegemony. If the White Diamond were anything more than a hospital ship, though, and operating under the overt banner of the Org, it seems like it’d be more efficient to staff it with loyal zealots who probably work for free. 😛
@nikolai60: Get outta that corner! The new book is definitely worth bragging about and being thankful for! And shamelessly plugging! xD
This could complicate things…
Also, I suggest tossing the kid in one for attempted treachery.
I wouldn’t trust him as far as i could throne him with his wings bound in led weights. still a moving floor made of traps? that sound familiar
@nikolai60: It seems that he was only asked if he knew a way in, not how did he get out. So not really attempted treachery. But he does seem to have withheld vital information…
Well judging how he’s hiding up in his wings, I’d say he still is quite a child.
I’m actually impressed with Jigsaw, she’s getting answers and that reaction out of him. I’m taking it its just as much about dealing with her sibs, as it is about using her powers to uncover the trap in waiting for them.
@Josh.C: I think you are right about him still being a child, especially if he was in those isolation pods for who knows how long.
I would hazard a guess that the intention of the isolation pods is to break the beings in them so that they can be “built up again”. A little like military training, but more brutal, quicker, and most likely with a lot of psychological issues in the long run…
Poor kid.
@Lavabat: It also gives us some interesting point about this ship.
Even this ship once belonged to the Org. Of coarse that brings to question just what happened here.
Certainly sets more of what happened with things. Some of these kids might have been on this ship even before Gabriel took it over. The first few ships Gabriel took were probably just a simple delivery ships with Rei and more kids with other supplies. As the ships kept coming, they progressively become less full of kids and more full of Org soldiers trying to understand what was going on.
I’d counter that White Diamond was Gabe’s “original” ship, and he led the revolt in direct response to finding out about the isolation pods/their use. Now…I don’t know if isolation pods are like isolation tanks (limiting the sensory input of the individual within to nil) or isolation cells, which just keeps someone out of contact with other patients (or prisoners). Given that Razil spent more than a day in one, I assume the latter, since long-term isolation tank use wrecks you. Well, wrecks humans. I’d wager, based on the shifting, that we are looking at prisoners, and that White Diamond was secretly a prison transport system with a psych ward cover.
That explains the slapped puppy sound she got from his mind. three days or more in total isolation will break most men even strong ones. too bad it never worked on the joker who went though all stages of acceptance in about five minutes during the jokers last laugh arc when he thought he was about to die. i wounder how Qin would deal with it.
when rising against gabriel be sure to use the handy tupperware containers of military personnel full of bloodlust
@Brunhidden: Not sure if that would be a good idea. If we consider the shape these kids are in, that might be handing the kids from one devil to another.
@The_Rippy_One: That actually makes it all a little more interesting. If the org had always been here as well as Gabriel and some of the kids. What exactly is this ship?
Did the Org commission (as well as modify) Gabriel and his ship to hold these kids? What happened that made Gabriel the only figure of law on this ship? When exactly did things turn around on this ship? Was the speakers Gabriel’s idea or Org’s?
@Josh: I agree about not letting the mentally broken and scared soldiery loose. Gabe may be bad (or not), but he isn’t exactly harmful. Soldiers at the height of their wrath…probably a bad risk…
I don’t think that most of these kids are from this ship. Razil obviously was, and I’d make the bet that the kids cringing about the “before times” probably were Raz’s pod-mates, and the nervous ones were from Gabe’s psych ward from back then, but Gabe has been freeing prisoners on the ships he’s entrapped, and if Star Org was running this sort of BS on one ship, they’re going to have run it on others.
If my supposition about why Gabe rebelled and took the ship holds, it may be that he’s been baiting himself specifically to find and stop that sort of thing on other ships…
Wild Mass Guess: Star Org imprisoned Veled on Gabe’s ship, and discovering her led to the rebellion I suppositioned.
@ Brunhidden – Good one! I almost sneezed out Coke while laughing 😉
I love the way Jig can draw so many complicated expressions and keep them separate to each character. And I feel sorry for Raz…he looks so cute hiding in his wings.
The odd thing about psychological tortures like sensory deprivation is that they can induce regression in a subject. Perhaps this is why Razil of soo childlike? And perhaps that is why the Org and Gabriel use the isolation pods – beings that have regressed to an earlier stage of psychological development would be more likely to obey a figure of authority. Much like a child obeys their parents.
Well someone has been watching the Cube ;3
When it doubt use someone else to get the dirty work done. some one expendable preferably. i wonder if that’s where Jason and Alice come in.
@e_voyager – If he is remotely honest about his true age he is probably quite used to it, probably wouldn’t have been his first time locked away in utter isolation for indefinite periods of time.
Who’s honest? Jason?, Razil or Gabriel remember Jason’s only 22
@e_voyager: I “think” Nasrudith was talking about Qin, and if so he just wasn’t being very clear about it.
Otherwise, I got nothin’.
Oh joy, this means those holes all over the ship are like laundry chutes for the convenient disposal of “unclean” Org cadets for (brain)washing. 👿
@Lavabat: I’m with you on the purpose of the pods. Since these were paramilitary ships, why not set aside some floor space for the automated “training” of recruits, or “re-training” if need be? Just think of all the time you could save on deployment! 😛
@The_Rippy_One: Do you think Gabriel is ex-Org, or were these pods just a personal catalyst for him to start his own crusade?
@Josh.C: I want to say that Gabriel put the speakers in, if only because the Org seems to have continually failed to account for them. xD
@ Sul: I’m not sure these ships were paramilitary. Or, at least, that these ships were known to be paramilitary by most of their staff. You could manage this set-up with just the director, and a “janitor/handyman/orderly” or two to handle the secret floor/pick-up/delivery. So, no, I don’t think Gabe started out Org. I was working more from the thought that the secret floor’s comp resources would hold a “manifest” of were the “cargo” came from, and he’d troll for the ships listed there to start.
@The_Rippy_One: A paramilitary group is simply a military-esque force whose function and organization is similar to those of a professional military, but which is not considered part of a state’s formal armed forces. The Org has officers, and the officers have military style uniforms. The org also have combat units – the riot squad they sent after Ariel (impostor or otherwise) even had a sniper. I think that would count as paramilitary.
@Lava: sure, Star Org, if not a straight up recognized church militant, is definitely paramilitary. Doesn’t mean that they can’t lie, and hire people through that lie, and in support of it. 95% of the staff on the White Diamond may have been hired as real doctors, nurses, engineers and orderlies to work at a real, newly built, neutral, medical facility, and fully believed that they were serving on a perfectly normal hospital ship. As such, they wouldn’t be part of a paramilitary organization, even if they were, nominally, on Star Org’s payrolls, by way of several shell corps. They certainly wouldn’t know it. From Star Org’s perspective, it would be almost ideal to set it up that way – why try to actively hide a secret in a large group, when you can have a large group’s honest ignorance shield your secret instead. Some of the best liars are the ones that don’t know that their lying, after all.
Well said Rippy one i believe they call that Ablative Armor but i could be wrong
@The_Rippy_One: In order to hide a secret in a large group’s honest ignorance you would have to be able to keep all the members of the large group ignorant all of the time, or fool all of them all of the time. While I agree with the underlying theory of your argument, it seems a little impossible to pull off – unless you are a writer or comic artist and control all the variables. 😛
@Everyone: Sorry to break up the flow of the conversation, but, I just wanted to say to Jig,’ Sul, E, Nikolia, and everyone else, one of the things I’m thankful for, is this comic and its community. To the Americans, happy Thanksgiving, and everyone else, a simple thanks.
@The_Rippy_One Right back at ya man, and all of you. Fun times indeed. I’m gonna add being able to finally read the Part 1 of Vol 2 book I bought, since I forgot to send to college, not home, so just getting to it now!
You all are great, as is this comic, Happy Thanksgiving all, unless you don’t celebrate, then happy Turkey day all the same!
^^^^^^^^
not a shameless plug, now I get to brag to my friends *shot*
@Nikolai I would have used a pie in the face for bragging but point made
@e post thanksgiving dinner makes for bad post choices, I’ll go sit in the corner now
D’awww! Thanksgiving or not, I’m grateful that not only do we get to just KEEP READING this swanky comic (beyond the five-year mark), but that y’all make doing so that much more fun. Here’s to more good times! 🙂
Is it too much of a stretch that an Org hospital ship would come equipped with these isolation pods? I don’t think I would put it past them.
@The_Rippy_One: Using contractors and shell corporations sounds like an excellent (and likely) way for the Endless to exert their shadowy hegemony. If the White Diamond were anything more than a hospital ship, though, and operating under the overt banner of the Org, it seems like it’d be more efficient to staff it with loyal zealots who probably work for free. 😛
@nikolai60: Get outta that corner! The new book is definitely worth bragging about and being thankful for! And shamelessly plugging! xD